Mmmm, Foot

Scott writes:

For all you people who think Cindy Sheehan is such a piece of trash, why don't you call up your local recruiter and join up? How about putting your keypads where your mouths are?

I've been there and done that and Cindy Sheehan has lost a child and has all the right in the world to do what she is doing. What has any of your sacrificing been? Slapping a magnetic YELLOW ribbon on your SUV I bet.

And I just love it when you rightwingers use civil rights to make your points, when it is clear how you really feel by your actions.

One of the reasons that I took down my photo and put the South Park cartoon of me way down on the page was to reel in fish like Scott: those who are so ill-informed and close-minded that they could never imagine that someone like me—a black woman—could opine from the right side of the political spectrum.

Scott, let me tap you on the shoulder and clue you in on something: I am the epitome of what the Civil Rights Movement hath wrought. However, I must applaud you for judging me by the content of my character. LOL

By the way, Scott, your comment demonstrates that your poor detective skills failed to reveal yet another important fact about me. However, thanks for the Public Service of standing as an object--and abject--lesson to others. Maybe you’ll get someone to send you flowers.

UPDATE: Scott and I have come to an understanding (via email), at least about some things. He returns to the comments of this post to flesh out his position, however, on why Mrs. Sheehan shouldn't be publicly criticized.

Comments

[Mike]

I was wondering why you took your military picture down. That explains it!

I wonder how many of your readers are veterans, like Sonja and I!

[Velociman]

Ouch! Remind me not to get crosswise with you, Juliette. Not that I ever would.

[og]

You can always tell when a post includes the phrase "you rightwingers" that there is gonna be some goofy bad stuff a'comin on. Amazing how clueless people can be.

If the wife will let me shave my beard (I have a whole bunch of ugly under there) I will be joining the Indiana State Guard this fall. Yeah, it's a noncombat thing, more an arm of Emergency Management, but it's service. I owe. I pay my debts.

[Maggie45]

LOL, Juliette, you are the VERY BEST!!!

[TC]

I read this site every day. I am a veteran (retired US Navy) so my view match almost all of yours. Keep up the great blog!

[Asher - Dreams Into Lightning]

Yup, I've gotten nonsense like this too. Then I tell these clueless idiots about my ten years in the service, six in the Air Force and four in the Marines including combat in Desert Storm.

What a nincompoop.

[Sissy Willis]

Your South Park alter ego is wicked cool. Talk about disarming your foes. :)

[mlah]

9 years in the navy. southwest asia service, and navy expeditionary forces medal. veterans abound here.

oh yeah, i guess this pulls me out of the shadows? i'll still mostly lurk

[A Proud Veteran]

I guess my name says it all. :)

12 years military service, divided between Army National Guard and active duty Air Force.

Juliette makes all kind of sense to me, and says things way more eloquently than I could. Scott, on the other hand, is obviously clueless.

[StinKerr]

Navy, six years. Ping jockey.

[shawn]

Way to go.

[LeonidasOfSparta]

Oh Scottttty.....

and YOUR service record is...

we are all still waiting...

(stone silence)

just as I thought

ultramaroon! go rub Cindy's feet

[Pacific John]

Juliette:

You surely get the larger point. The vast majority of the people who attack Sheehan are not like you, they are cowards.

Look at the congressional candidates, it's the largest group of military veterans since WWII, and they are virtually all Democrats. They are people who respect both Mrs. Young and Ms. Sheehan.

The question you need to ask yourself about various supporters of the Iraq war, is, what sacrifices, both personal and national, do they support? Do they support sending their own flesh and blood into the military? Do they support pro-veteran legislation? Do they really support giving deployed troops adequate training and equipment?

Or do they bluff and posture behind keyboards?

[A Proud Veteran]

Pacific John,

I am a "various supporter of the Iraq war," and yes, I have encouraged every family member of mine, and most of my younger friends to consider the military as an option, either for short or long-term career.
And yes, I support pro-veteran legislation, and yes, I support giving deployed troops adequate training and equipment.

I also support taking care of our troops after they come home, whether they're wounded or not.

I do not, however, understand where your questions are coming from, or what point you're trying to make with them.

I've not personally met anyone who supports the war and our troops, who does not also support those items you asked about.

[Tully]

He's trying to set a record for sheer density of logical fallacies. Three more and he gets a free donut at Krispy Kreme!

[StinKerr]

"Look at the congressional candidates, it's the largest group of military veterans since WWII, and they are virtually all Democrats. They are people who respect both Mrs. Young and Ms. Sheehan."

Can you substantiate any of this, PJ?

I note that you specify "candidates" and I have to assume that you meant the last election. Do you suppose that they might have won election had they not supported Sheehan? What does that tell you?

[Pacific John]

StinKerr:

You can keep track of it here, at Majority Report, AAR. Also, check the Band of Brothers site. Funny how the so-called liberal media has sort of under-covered this, huh?

A Proud Veteran:

You have a limited, or dishonest, circle of friends. In a country or approx. 300 million people, we can't recruit enough qualified applicants to keep 1 million in the armed forces. The latest decreases in recruiting standards allow people who have dropped out of high school, spent time in jail, and have recently been prescribed psychiatric drugs.

If you do the math for a few seconds, say something like 100 million Americans are war hawks. Lets also say there are 600,000 troops rotated through ground operations in Iraq, maybe 400,000 of which support the political goals of the war (again, based on the political activity of recent vets, this is a generous number).

That's a .6% rate of war cons currently exposed to combat. If you greatly expand that by 10x, 6 percent of war hawks or so have military families.

[Tully]

ONE more to the free donut!

[og]

Ah, PJ, I see you have your copy of "How to Lie with Statistics" by Darrell Huff.

Here's the thing: Nobody attacks sheehan because of military service, or lack therof, or any other reason than she's a moron, and the poster child for bad parenting, turning the death of a young serviceman into a political issue, which it is not. In as much as she can criticize Bush, we are all free, veteran or not, to criticize Sheehan. And if you don't like that, Too bad. Now, when I call someone a coward, I do it to his or her face, and only when I'm damned good and sure he/she deserves it. Calling someone a coward from behind a keyborar, is, well, frankly, cowardly. I would never do such a thing.

[og]

*keyboard.

[baldilocks]

Pacific John:

The latest decreases in recruiting standards allow people who have dropped out of high school, spent time in jail, and have recently been prescribed psychiatric drugs.

I'm sure you have a link for this assertion. Could you provide it? Last time I checked, the Air Force--at least--had stopped accepting recruits who had GEDs only. Even before that ban, the acceptance of GED-only recruits in the AF was rare. The other services may have different standards--that is, still accept GED-onlys (i.e. high-school dropouts).

[baldilocks]

Oh and one more thing, Pacific John: The chickenhawk epithet is a bastion of those incapable of making their point without inflicting illogical epithets. Just FYI.

[Pacific John]

Baldi:

Since I already provided an irrefutable link on the Sheehan story and you failed to correct your post, I won't bother on the links to the recruiting stories.

You're no doubt correct that the AF and Navy are doing well with recruiting, but that's not really what we are talking about, is it? One of the kids in my family got blown out of his Humvee, and that sets me apart from 95% of war hawks, and 100% of chickenhawks.

[Pacific John]

...okay, I'll at least give you a tip. Fred Kaplan recently cited the 600% explosion of category IV recruits.

[Tully]

"Irrefutable" = "I believe it religiously, and only a heathen would doubt"

[Synova]

Whatever moral suasion Cindy Sheehan aquired when her son Casey died... she's used it up. Every last little drop.

At first, even while I cringed at what she said, I felt genuine pain for her ordeal.

Later, I felt a sort of sick disgust for the people I felt were doing their darned best to keep her from healing as they used her greif to press their own agendas.

And now? I just can't find excuses for her any more.

The *one* bright part of it all, the *one* thing I can tell myself that makes it bearable, is that while he can't defend his own self and his own choies and his own memory... at least being dead means Casey can't see the party decorations on his tomb stone.

[Yeff]

I only used to come her to oogle your picture but, since you removed it, I've actually had to read the content and *think*.

I'm not sure I can forgive you for that. Maybe if you buy me dinner...

(that's as smooth as I get - if you're not ready to date me yet you'll probably be sorely disappointed awaiting a better try)

I was a SIGINT analyst during my 10 years in the Air Force. I once had somebody online call me a wannabe because he couldn't believe I'd be allowed to say what my job was in public. The guy was former Army and never could answer what job he thought was written on my 214.

Another time I had someone post to a mailing list that I couldn't possibly be a black man because I didn't write like one. That one just made me very, very tired.

People have their preconcieved notions, often at odds with established reality. It's always going to happen and, as angry as it can make us, I think your habit of suckering such people in is a novel way to deal with it.

[Tully]

Free donut for PJ!

We currently have about 1.4 million active-duty personnel, with 2.25 million-plus total troops counting reserve numbers, but NOT counting civilian DoD employees or non-drilling Individual Ready Reserve.

And Kaplan really has something there. Why, at the current rate of Cat IV acceptances, our military will be up to 2% Cat IV composition in just a few years. As compared to 5% CAT IV accession rates during the Reagan years, and the over 30% CAT IV accession rates under Jimmy Carter. We're really backslidin' there, better get out them apocalypse trumpets and start blowin'.

Also not mentioned is that CAT IV's don't tend to have much career service longevity, and so the overall force composition numbers are MUCH lower than the acccession (enlistment) numbers, as training and service realities drive out the marginal recruits. CAT IV retention is much lower than for other categories. Duh.

Pointing out that two month's worth of data taken at the slack time of the year for recruiting is not exactly a definitive trend baseline for projections would be piling on, methinks.

I think we can all see the problem with getting one's data from biased sources and declaring it as gospel truth, rather than searching out primary sources and doing relevant comparisons.

[og]

Tully: How dare you use facts. LOL!

Nicely done.

[BeckyJ]

Tully,

Great way to use facts to mess up a perfectly good theory!! Hmph! If I post some rants can I get some free donuts too? Please?

(Actually, what I really miss out here in Philly is In 'n Out...)

[StinKerr]

Thanks for the links, PJ. However supporting your claim that "they are virtually all Democrats" by posting a link to a site that only recruits Democrats is sort of disingenuous, don't you think?

The same goes for the AAR site. I spent a little bit of time there looking for their explanation as to why they were stealing from a kids' charity in NY but nothing turned up.

Do you have links to anything remotely bi-partisan?

[Tully]

Better yet, something NON-partisan. You know--reality based.

[Marty]

Another veteran here!

[Marc]

And another, 20 year retired Navy.

PJ is the perfect example why I pretty much abandoned my political blog and spend more enjoyable and worth while time at my NASCAR blog.

BTW anyone seen PJ around these parts since Tully gave him the WWE type smackdown.

[Pacific John]

Hey, did anyone give a response? What fraction of war supporters send family members into the service?

Anyone?

Well?

Good news, guys. When last we checked, 55 Dem vets had announced they were running for congress. (And, admit it guys, you tried - how many vets are on your side?).

Two more vets today, Jack Carter, former sailer. I hear he comes from honest stock, too.

and ...

drumroll...

James Webb, a get-some US Marine, Annapolis grad, and Secretary of the Navy under Ronald Reagan.

The sun is setting on you nuts and fake patriots, you just don't know it yet.

Toodles.

Out!

[Pacific John]

Oh, this should be nonpartisan. Look what our country is doing to wounded vets. If they'll (by "they," I mean administration chickhawks and enablers like are too common at PJM) do this to a ring knocker, imagine how they'll abuse other vets. You people should get on your knees and beg this fine soldier for forgiveness. Better yet, you cheap skates should pop for the $700.

I dare you. I'll even let you take the credit. Raise the $700 and prove that you aren't lower than pig feces.

[Pacific John]

Ah, hell. You fake patriots don't seem to get news from the real world any other way:

Bush proposes ending death benefit. That's the $255 Social Security widow and widower benefit that, yes, families of fallen troops receive.

Ban me not, Baldi. I know how much PJM worships the "truth," whatever you think that is.

[Teal Marie]

Goodness, that's not very pacific. You seem to be clamoring for prodigal troll status, PJ. I do hope we are out of fatted calves, I must say.
What would happen if I say "footstool", I wonder. After all, you arrived with a bleeding grudge. You're awful familiar for a supposedly fresh face.
That's my response.

[Tully]

You're awful familiar for a supposedly fresh face.

Isn't he, though?

And when his "facts" get exposed as cant and rant and what makes the grass grow green, he flees directly for the refuge of misdirection and the deeper fallacies such as ad hominem. Accompanied by the standard "shotgunning" tactic of conflating and expanding his issue/demand list to infinity, in an attempt to smother his failures under an avalanche of exponentially multiplying tangents, only tenuously related to the starting point in any way at best.

Here's a list for you, PJ. Better go check it out--you might have missed one or two. You do want a perfect score, don't you? :-)

[Maureen O'Brien]

I can speak to the Democrat vets who are running for office, because my brother is trying to do that himself. He's the only (living) Democrat in our family, but hardly the only vet. He's a pro-gun, pro-life Democrat who's kinda slipped away from conservatism, mostly because he was about the only Conservative Democrat in the county party.

He's been trying to get involved in politics forever, and he's been working for the county party for quite a while. But magically, this year, the party has seized upon him as a state legislature candidate to face up against our area's pro-gun, pro-life, pro-military, pro-war Conservative Republican.

I'm glad for him, of course. But I know my brother has almost no chance of winning, and a lot of chance to use up his savings for a vain attempt. His biggest asset is that his first name is the same as that of the incumbent.

Hmmmm. Does this mean the Democratic Party loves vets? Or that it loves to use vets? (Especially those with convenient first names?)

[Pacific John]

What? No outpouring from the right to help an injured soldier? It was only a measly $700!

No worries, we took care of it over at Americablog. $5,000 in one hours.

How can you stand the humiliation of looking in the mirror?

[Tully]

Actually, PJ, I went to the horses' mouth, instead of listening to the other end*. 1st Lt. Rebrook explained yesterday at a press conference that he didn't get his paperwork right, that the problem was being corrected to provide him a refund, and it wasn't a really big deal.

"It was a problem of localized bureaucracy and a communication failure. It's not a huge geo-political issue or it's not an issue of politics or the army." --1st Lt. Willaim "Eddie" Rebrook

But hey, full steam ahead. Don't wait for the complete story or anything, and be sure to piss all over the person you claim to be championing. As for Lt. Rebrook, he has plans. No longer fit for combat service, he's going to get a medical degree and re-join the army as a doctor.

[*--since you're dense, I'll elucidate. The other end is you.]

[Tully]

Maureen, the best advice for your brother is that if the party wants a sacrifical lamb to keep that race from looking empty, then the party should pay all the expenses. I've actually worked for "sacrificial lamb" candidates on both sides of the Divide who won. But it's rare. Heck, beating any incumbent is rare, thanks to computerized redistricting.

Both parties love to use vets. If they can get them elected, the vets in turn get to use the parties--often in ways the party rank & file don't much like. Which seems quite reasonable to me.

[Pacific John]

"that the problem was being corrected to provide him a refund,"

Link please.

[MorningSun]

I dunno if this will post right , from The Charleston Gazette

http://wvgazette.com/section/Breaking/000000109

[Pacific John]

MorningSun:

Those statements were after WV's senators got involved.

Rebrook himself has tried to downplay this, and is admirably both humble and non-confrontational. The only statement I've read related to Americablog's $5000 is that Rebrook plans on giving all of it to the mother - a Katrina victim - of a soldier who helped save his life.

But if you go back to Rebrook's mother's statements, you get a better sense that Rebrook's boss/bosses at Ft. Hood were jerks.

[Tully]

LMAO. Gotcha, PJ. Nothing 1LT Rebrook himself says actually counts. Just the words of those who hopped on his back for a free political rant & rage ride, without his consent or approval--or all the facts.

Imagine, folks. Service paperwork getting screwed up. What're the odds?

It was mighty nice of all those AmericaBlog people to give money to that lady in Louisiana, though. It's an ill wind, et cetera.

[Pacific John]

Tully:

Why do I get the idea your excuses will always keep changing, and you'll never, ever, admit you were wrong, that Rebrook was going to get screwed out of $700 until his story became public?

By the way, you really should sync up with your cohorts - it seems righty boards are pissed off too. Too cheap to pull out their Visa cards for another human being, but pissed nonetheless.

There is a sad pattern that Internet communities like Daily Kos are rapidly filling up with vets, wounded or otherwise, all with the same stories: they never knew that liberals were the ones who who really supported them until it really mattered.

It's less ironic that 40 new congressional candidates rallied today with Max Cleland at the Capitol building. There are now close to 60 Dem candidates running to enter congress, compared to something like 3? 5? Republicans trying to win a seat.

Tully, no one who can look themselves in the mirror believes your crap, no matter what they post at PJM.

I have no way of knowing how many people here are false patriots, though it's clear there are quite a few, but one thing is demonstrably clear, the right side of the web is too damn cheap to put its money where its mouth is. So who *really* supports the troops, if you won't even break out your Visa cards?

We on the left are sacrificing to do the right things for vets, to clean up after YOUR screwup.

[Pacific John]

Here, Tully. Dance some more for us:

"Rebrook, 25, who attended West Point and was medically discharged from the Army last week, said he wouldn't keep the donations. He's paying back the people he borrowed from to take care of the $700 bill, and also passing along the money to charity and a Louisiana woman who lost her home in Hurricane Katrina -- the woman's son helped save his life in Iraq, he said."

From an update in Editor and Publisher 3 1/2 hours ago.

We'll hear more, since Avarosis at Americablog mailed his check today.

[Tully]

Better go back and re-read the thread, PJ, from the beginning. I think you missed something along the way. :-)

But thank you for the ample demonstration.