Just Showing Up is Half the Battle

As I mentioned a couple of days ago, I had planned to address the fact that Republican presidential candidates Rudy Giuliani, Fred Thompson, John McCain and Mitt Romney planned to skip the Republican Presidential Forum which will be held at historically-black Morgan State University--due to "scheduling conflicts." (The Forum is an episode of Tavis Smiley's All American Presidential Forum and is to be broadcast via PBS on September 27.) But, as most bloggers know, when you snooze you lose and someone will end up hitting every point that you planned to address, as fellow Conservative Brotherhood members D.C Thornton and Michael "Cobb" Bowen have done on this subject. Therefore my only recourse is to say, "what they said" and highlight points of agreement. DC and Cobb suspect that the conflicts mentioned have nothing to do with scheduling, but with, shall we say, the apprehension that the candidates may feel in addressing an audience, whose majority holds a different political ideology. I suspect this as well.

D.C. Thornton:

I agree with Newt Gingrich, Michael Steele, and others who expressed grave disappointment at the top tier candidates declining to attend. Whether they had legitimate scheduling conflicts or just simply felt that participating in a heavily biased, agenda-driven forum would be a waste of their time is already being discussed, debated, or maligned by pundits everywhere.

Just as I took black Republican no-shows to the 2006 State of the Black Union (another CWBA [Covenant with Black America] themed event) to task, I’m doing the same for the Top 4 — especially Fred Thompson, whom I support for the presidential nomination: Show up anyway.

Yes, you’re damned if you do (and of course damned if you don’t), but you’ll earn a lot more respect from those who may not necessarily agree with you. Some may even open their minds and consider your plans and proposals for the future. And just maybe some of those who consider your arguments may come over to your side, lend you their support, and even cast a vote for you.

Cobb, in an open letter to Fred Thompson:

I am disappointed having received some indication that you may have declined to speak at a debate to be held at Morgan State University. While candidates of your distinction must often refute the false claims of open enemies as well as advocate those causes of their dedicated supporters. So too, must candidates, and more importantly true leaders, not be daunted by circumstances in which the true intentions of their interlocutors are murky. The prospect of wading through the fog of racial symbolism is such a cloudy circumstance. In the decision surrounding the path taken through known territory and unknown territory, leadership can be determined in a moment. Such a moment has presented itself as an obstacle whether you like it or not. [SNIP]

[W]e are often met on such rhetorical battlefields testing whether we have the stomach, and the presence of mind to at the very least say the right thing and encourage Americans to do the right thing. We cannot wish such political conflict away, and the courageous and righteous among us cannot ignore it. I don't like being a 'black Republican' because I have to fight stereotypes every day. You may not like being a 'white Republican' for similar reasons. When somebody calls you a liar, tell the truth.

To paraphrase John McCain himself: If a prospective Commander-in-Chief is afraid to address his/her political opponents, how will he/she deal with adversaries who want to kill all of us?

(Thanks to Booker Rising; please go over there for a rousing discussion of the topic; scroll down)

Comments

[Wrymouth]

To any and all, I say: "C'mon! How can you be running for POTUS and *not* welcome an open opportunity to mix it up a little?"

Talk about missing the boat!

[DarkStar]

They are punks. Just like the Dems for not going on Fox News. Punks.

[baldilocks]

Darkstar: Exactly.

[baldilocks]

By the way, I sent all four of them the link to this post. Should any of them show up, I'll be happy to rescind my above estimation of their character.

[Richard Cook]

I think you all have missed the boat. I have seen this thing before and do not think it is a good use of resources to participate in a debate at an HBC. The Repubs have nothing to work with concerning potential voters since the black voting record has been so knee jerk Dem. I think the 2000 election saw a concentrated effort by the Rebublicans to "reach out" to the Black voter and it didn't do much good.

If you are not going to get any return on investment why invest? RSVP? People may write this off as just callow politics but what can you do if you do not get elected?

[baldilocks]

Well, Richard, if I understand you correctly, the relationship is terminal, so it's best to just euthanize it. Also, unless an appearance before a group gets one elected, it's worthless, correct?

I guess that explains why Giuliani--who has a poor 2nd Amendment record--appeared before a rather cool NRA audience the other day: political gain.

It's silly of me to expect anything like principle from politicians. My fault.

[Richard Cook]

Your sarcasm is not appreciated. The past record has been that the black community votes almost en mass for the Democratic candidate. The African American community is shrinking in power while the Asian and Hispanic communities are gaining. It would make sense to go after those communities rather than the African American community. The bald fact which you choose to ignore is that unless you get elected you cannot change anything. Your were right. Silly you.

[Richard Cook]

It sounds so libertarian. Hang on to your principles and lose every election. I am not saying throw all principle away, but, some principles you will have to slacken to win an election. It is up to the politician which one to slacken and up to the electorate to determine if they can deal with his slackening that principle.

[D.C. Thornton]

Quite frankly, Richard, I don't see the sarcasm in Juliette's reply. Your initial comment (which is similar to the one posted at my site) does suggest that the GOP should just write off black voters altogether.

I'm a registered Republican. Should I and other blacks who reject the Democrat platform be dismissed as well?

Not all blacks are mindless sheep who do whatever the "shepherds" on the left tell us to do. And the NRA analogy suggested by Juliette is 100% valid.

[baldilocks]

Thanks, Darmon, but I did put forth a little sarcasm.

Richard,

Sarcasm isn't an unprecedented phenomenon at this four-year-endeavor, but since I didn't insult you personally, I feel no need to apologize.

All of the facts which you put forth in your second-to-last comment are known by me so I'm not "choosing to ignore them." As I said before, however, I'd like to be able to vote for a person who stands on principle. That isn't to say that I will sit the 2008 presidential election out should the nominee disappoint me in a few less important ways. I only suggest that the Big Four could rise above the average political calculation--as demonstrated by Giuliani--on principle.

I'm not sure how showing up at this debate would be a libertarian move. Perhaps you can explain this to me. Seriously requested--no sarcasm.

[Richard Cook]

My comment about the libertarians was intendend to point out they have stuck by their principles, sometimes to the extreme and have not won any election of note. Guiliani does not have a thing to prove having proved it on 9/11. The number of blacks that think outside the box seems to be pitifully small. In my day to day existence I can count the number on one hand and have fingers left over. And they do it quietly so as not to arouse suspicion. Republicans have gone through this before and been slapped in the face. It does not make sense to spend resources and get nothing back. There is always the truth that numbers matter in a republic and I would rather have money spent on constituencies that can be influenced by debate. I think the position of most Black Americans has solidified into a mythology that shows no sign of being affected by debate or exposure to Republican/Conservative philosophy. There is priciple and then there is wasting time and resources.

[baldilocks]

My comment about the libertarians was intended to point out they have stuck by their principles, sometimes to the extreme and have not won any election of note.

Got it. Would showing up at this debate cause the Top Four to lose a substantial block of votes? If so, why?

Giuliani does not have a thing to prove having proved it on 9/11.

He did indeed prove that he can handle one of the most unimaginably dire situations with aplomb. So, in light of that, what would be his reasoning for not being a part of a situation that’s not in the least dire, but, adversarial nonetheless?

The number of blacks that think outside the box seems to be pitifully small. In my day to day existence I can count the number on one hand and have fingers left over. And they do it quietly so as not to arouse suspicion. Republicans have gone through this before and been slapped in the face.

We'll assume that you mean a bit of (possible) booing, heckling and demagoguery; not exactly a frightening situation for a politician, or, it shouldn't be.

It does not make sense to spend resources and get nothing back. There is always the truth that numbers matter in a republic and I would rather have money spent on constituencies that can be influenced by debate.

Our money is being spent by all of the candidates some of whom certainly use it to speak to constituencies which we may deem to not be “outside-the-box” thinkers and who may be narrow thinkers themselves.

I think the position of most Black Americans has solidified into a mythology that shows no sign of being affected by debate or exposure to Republican/Conservative philosophy. There is principle and then there is wasting time and resources.

To say that black Americans aren’t affected by “exposure to Republican/Conservative philosophy” assumes that we are exposed constantly. I wasn’t until I joined the military and never was afterward except when I went looking for it myself.

To say that attempting to expose black Americans to this philosophy on a wider scale is a waste of time and that it shouldn’t be done even when Republicans have been invited to do so, is a circular argument.

That some Republicans would throw up their hands and say “there’s nothing we can do about these people” is a sign of indolence and prejudicial thinking. I don’t presume to know whether those are your issues or that of the Top Four, but I do think that this next is a huge problem for all of us (and not just in this area): short-term thinking. That there are Republicans who would abandon black Americans to the Democrat Noise Machine is merely one of the many symptoms of this failing. Failing to think outside of the box is an equal opportunity malady—race and party make no difference in this respect.

[Richard Cook]

Concerning your third paragraph I think it goes a lot deeper than that. You are missing my point. I don't care about heckling, etc. That is part of campaigning. What I mean is peoples' willingness to shift their view of an issue or issues. I don't believe the willingness is there. My own observation is that the Black community resembles honor and shame cultures than anything else and almost self corrects when there is any deviancy from what is accepted by the community. I have engaged blacks in every economic strata and it is unbelievable the uniformity of opinion concerning Republican/Conservative values, which are remarkably close to old style Black values. And to continue to dump money into an effort that has a minuscule chance of changing minds seems like a lost cause. I am going to look at the stats for the percentage of Black voters that have voted for Republicans in a presidential election. I really doubt the percentage has changed significantly in forty years. If you do not get the votes you cannot effect change.

[baldilocks]

I'm not missing your point. You're pessimistic about the chances that such "outreach" would do any good. I get that--I've even had a great deal of the same experiences which you've had.

I just view most uphill battles differently. This is one of them.

BTW, 39% of black American voters cast their ballots for Richard Nixon in 1968; 1976--16% for Ford; 1980--14% for Reagan (more as I find it). As you can see, the percentage *has* changed significantly in forty years: downward, unfortunately, which seems to drive home your point rather than mine. However, it's the LBJ gambit writ large. (He was indeed a long-term thinker.) More in a bit.

[Richard Cook]

J-

I am going to pose a question with some hard words:

Why should a dime be given toward any gathering at a HBC?

Blacks are 13% of the population and have the lowest voter participation.

Hispanic and Asian power and demographics are increasing. This is were the future is and they are not by far as syncophantic towards the Democratic party.

Isn't Smiley the same one who called Bush a "mass murderer"?

This is not meant to denigrate a group but, like La Cosa Nostra, its just business. Incidentally, for you non east coasters, La Cosa Nostra is the mob.

[baldilocks]

These aren’t hard words at all.

Why should a dime be given toward any gathering at a HBC?

I’m not following the logic of the question. (I have an idea of where you’re going but I want you to specify your objections to this venue and I don’t want to put words in your mouth.)

Blacks are 13% of the population and have the lowest voter participation.

OK.

Hispanic and Asian power and demographics are increasing. This is where the future is and they are not by far as sycophantic towards the Democratic Party

So why did the all of the Republican candidates (except for McCain) skip the Univision debate?

Isn't Smiley the same one who called Bush a "mass murderer"?

Probably. Chris Matthews has heaped all manner of similar invective upon GWB. Did you have the same objections to Matthews as the moderator of a prior Republican debate (and, possibly a future one)?

This is not meant to denigrate a group but, like La Cosa Nostra, its just business.

Understood, but I think that you have, basically, given up on black Americans as a whole. :::shrug::: I won’t, but I’d still like to you to flesh out the reasoning behind the above questions/observations more. Don’t worry. I like this particular debate and it's giving me some post fodder--not (necessarily) on topic.

Incidentally, for you non east coasters, La Cosa Nostra is the mob.

Hey, this west-coaster has read (and seen) The Godfather dozens of times—another stereotype down the tubes. :-)

[baldilocks]

BTW, I'm not always that wed to my optimism on this topic (see the post tracked to this one).

[Richard Cook]

I will respond tomorrow J. Snowed under with work. Concerning your military experience I have been in the Navy active and reserve for 27 years. Currently a CPO. Cheers.

[DarkStar]

Your sarcasm is not appreciated. The past record has been that the black community votes almost en mass for the Democratic candidate.

I appreciate it.

Guiliani does not have a thing to prove having proved it on 9/11.

What ever. He lied about his decision to place the command center in the World Trade Center despite the fact that it was a target years before. Then there are the millions of dollars NYC has had to pay out because of civil liberties and civil rights violations. Even Ghouliani's supporters were turning on him prior to 9/11.

If you are not going to get any return on investment why invest?

The "sainted" Ronald Reagan went to a car assembly plant, got on a podium in the parking lot, and told the car workers his beliefs. He got their vote when Republicans said it was impossible.

I have engaged blacks in every economic strata and it is unbelievable the uniformity of opinion concerning Republican/Conservative values, which are remarkably close to old style Black values.

I'll be blunt: I know you are lying. I listen to Black talk radio and I hear the clash between "the Black left" and "the Black right" and "the Black pragmatists" all of the time. It's also normal to hear "the Black left" blasting Democrats. And that mirrors my real life circle of influence. Your "whining" and "victimology" is quite a thing to behold.

And your "thinking" definitely is an insult to local Black Republicans who are in political office WITH the support of local Blacks.

And D.C. Thorton, concerning the "mindless sheep" comment, you are the one who is the kool aide drinker. It takes more guts and independence to be an "independent" than be a Republican. Have you ever wondered, or dared to think, why it is Black "independents" can criticize Democrats and not get called sell outs and other names?

Robert Ehrlich reached out to the Black community, chose Michael Steele as his running mate, signed a "contract" that stated what he would try to do to help Blacks in Maryland. This included increasing funding to Coppin, Morgan, Bowie, and Univ. MD Eastern Shore, all HBCUs in Maryland. He got 8% of the vote but lived up to some of his promises. For re-election, Ehrlich lost but he got 20% of the Black vote. He lost women who decided to vote for O'Malley. Michael Steele said he would win if he got 20-25% of the Black vote and if the race wasn't about Dem vs. Repub. He got 30% of the Black vote but the race turned into Dem vs Repub. No one mentions his percentage of the Jewish vote.

Here's something interesting: Jewish voters go Dem 80-85% of the time with a recent low of 75% 8 years ago. But Repubs still try for that vote. That FACT makes all "pragmatic" rhetoric concerning going after the Black vote, ring hollow.

[Richard Cook]

knew I could depend on you to move the debate forward Darkstar. I'll be blunt. Grow up.

[DarkStar]

I should apologize for my "tone" but I won't. I will apologize for misreading one part.

I have engaged blacks in every economic strata and it is unbelievable the uniformity of opinion concerning Republican/Conservative values, which are remarkably close to old style Black values.

I misread that to mean uniformity of views, period. I'll write more about "Republican/Conservative values" and "old style Black values" later.

What I will write now, however, is no matter how much you think I need to grow up, I put out a lot of facts that you didn't address and facts that I find are RARELY, if ever, addressed by GOP apologists.

Additionally, I find it amazing and I think it is degrading that Black Republicans are left to mop up the mess made by white Republicans concerning the Black vote.

[Richard Cook]

No I didn't respond. The prospect of a rational conversation with someone who starts out calling me a liar usually pretty remote.

[DarkStar]

That's an interesting comment. Let me review some of yours and then talk about rational, after that?

The Repubs have nothing to work with concerning potential voters since the black voting record has been so knee jerk Dem.

And...

The number of blacks that think outside the box seems to be pitifully small. In my day to day existence I can count the number on one hand and have fingers left over.

And...

I think the position of most Black Americans has solidified into a mythology that shows no sign of being affected by debate or exposure to Republican/Conservative philosophy.

So, to your use "logic," there is no need for Blacks to even consider Republicans, because Republicans think so lowly of Blacks any damn way. And to continue along that line, if that is the case, why should I, or any sane Black person, give you or any Republican any respect just to HEAR what you have to say?

[DarkStar]

Baldi, for some reason when I enter the comment section, I'm recognized as YOU.

[baldilocks]

All black people look alike to Typepad, apparently. :-P

Seriously, do me a favor and mention this to Typepad Help.

[Richard]

Well, I'm late to this debate, so I don't know if anyone will read this, but I want to make a couple of very important comments.

First, I was somewhat disappointed that the top 4 didn't participate in the debate. Only somewhat, because I have so a low expectation of politicians in the first place, it's not easy for them to let me down.

Second, I do have as much a problem with someone like Chris Mathews moderating a debate as Smiley. Not that I think they shouldn't be allowed to necessarily, but it seems comical to have someone so extremely partisan act as a "moderate"r.

Third, and more to the point. One reason that the top 4 may have had for avoiding this particular debate may not have been for the stated reason (scheduling) or for the supposition of those such as Richard Cook (futility) but the fear that the slightest slip up in stating their view could be used against them to sink their chances of being nominated. By being steadfast in your opinions, you could be called a racist. Regardless of what you may have actually said, the media will only pick up the accusation. People have been fired for less. (And lost elections.)

Not that I'm excusing them for missing the debate because of this fear, just providing a possible, alternate, reason.

And last, when I entered the comments section I was recognized as Baldilocks as well. So you can't criticize Typepad as being racist (I'm not black), just stupid. :)