It's the "White" Church that Obama's Talking About (UPDATED)

Mickey Kaus and many others are still trying to make sense of Barack Obama’s defense of the following remarks.

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant [SIC] sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

(Emphasis mine.)

Says Kaus:

It lumps together things Obama wants us to think he thinks are good (religion) with things he undoubtedly thinks are bad (racism, anti-immigrant sentiment). I suppose it's logically possible to say 'these Pennsylvania voters are so bitter and frustrated that they cling to both good things and bad things,." but the implication is that these are all things he thinks are unfortunate and need explaining (because, his context suggests, they prevent voters from doing the right thing and voting for ... him). Yesterday at the CNN "Compassion Forum" Obama said he wasn't disparaging religion because he meant people "cling" to it in a good way! Would that be the same way they "cling" to "antipathy to people who aren't like them"--the very next phrase Obama uttered? Is racism one of those "traditions that are passed on from generation to generation" that "sustains us"? Obama's unfortunate parallelism makes it hard for him to extricate him from the charge that he was dissing rural Pennsylvanians' excess religiosity.

If you think about it, the fact that Obama lumped the perceived religion of the white, rural Pennsylvanian with “antipathy toward those not like them”--that is, racism, bigotry and anti-immigration (sic)--makes perfect sense.* The latter is bad and so is the former—if one is observing from the perspective of Black Liberation Theology.

In Obama’s mind, the religion clung to by the “average poor white Pennsylvanian” is BLT’s demonic “white” Church. The "white" Church is the tool of oppression for all—including poor whites—and should be shaken off just like other social maladies. Just like anti-immigration (sic) and racism. One will note that, in the defense of the earlier remarks, Obama still does not say anything objectively positive about the religion adhered to by the average rural white Pennsylvanian. What he actually says is that government should answer their prayers.

But what is absolutely true is that people don’t feel like they are being listened to.

And so they pray and they count on each other and they count on their families. You know this in your own lives, and what we need is a government that is actually paying attention [to their prayers!]. Government that is fighting for working people day in and day out making sure that we are trying to allow them to live out the American dream.

Never forget where this guy is coming from.

* Apologists for illegal immigration are becoming too confident in leaving out the all-important adjective 'illegal' when discussing the subject.

UPDATE: I'm not sure but I think that this my first Ace-lanche. Be gentle with me.

UPDATE:Good morning/afternoon/evening to Glenn's readers also. Hot Air's too!

UPDATE: Please read Karl's primer on Black Liberation Theology at Protein Wisdom.

Comments

[Gabriel Malor]

His apology doesn't alter his comment. He still supports the idea that people wouldn't have to pray and count on their families (i.e. cling to religion and their hick insularity) if the government would only bring about a new economic renaissance.

Now FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, can we pretend not to be bothered by this until after the nominate him? I'm actually starting to fear that Clinton may pull this out. That would be bad.

[Nice Deb]

Woo hoo! You go girl!

[baldilocks]

ITA with your first paragraph, Gabriel.

However, I think that things will be worse if O. wins the nomination. More in a later post.

[doubleplusundead]

Gabe, I'm not sure I agree, I think both of them have screwed things up with different demographics so badly, unless McCain or the GOP totally eat it, we'll either win or hold out enough to prevent a leftist version of a Reagan deluge. I think we'll be fine, and even better if this thing drags out. It is entertaining as hell to watch.

[S. Weasel]

...making sure that we are trying to allow them...

Wow, Obama sure uses some oddly passive language at times, doesn't he? How do you fight to make sure to try to allow something?

I wonder if that's a turn of mind he picked up in academia or politics?

[doubleplusundead]

One problem we may have is that if Hillary wins and Obama takes a VP offer. That'll be bad, and that is my biggest concern right now.

[Gabriel Malor]

I look forward to it, Juliette. You mean worse for McCain's and the GOP's chances or worse for America?

doubleplusundead, I agree that a joint ticket would be very bad.

[baldilocks]

GM: the latter.

[doubleplusundead]

I'm not sure but I think that this my first Ace-lanche. Be gentle with me.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!! C'mon, us Morons aren't that bad!

[S. Weasel]

We are kind of like a flock of magpies, though. When we go, your deck will be covered in poop.

[Wildmonk]

I'm with Baldilocks on this one. I do believe that Clinton would make a poor president but I am truly scared of Obama. The combination of Black Liberation Theology and the absolute worship he inspires in some circles should be setting off alarms all across the electorate. Are there really millions of people ready to throw the entire edifice of Democratic Capitalism in the garbage in favor or strong-man Socialist politics?

Now, I do believe he would lose to McCain but even the *chance* that he'd win is just something that I'd rather not countenance. Of course, it would also say some terrible things about one of America's two dominant political parties were he to get the nomination.

[baldilocks]

S. Weasel, :::snort::: An apt analogy.

Of course, I'm a Moron™ too.

[S. Weasel]

Heh. Yes, I recognize you from Ace's. I always assumed you were a middle aged white man (what the heck was I supposed to take away from "bald"?).

I'm discovering lots of new reading since I took up the whole moronosphere link list...

[MC]

Bingo Juliette!

Repudiates his repudiation of Wright (such as it was) doesn't it? A few things must rub off in 20 years...

[Rick Moran]

Superior piece. I didn't think it possible for anyone to have anything original to say about this issue after the avalanche of stuff that's come out over the last few days.

You proved me wrong. Including this gem:

"In Obama’s mind, the religion clung to by the “average poor white Pennsylvanian” is BLT’s demonic “white” Church. The "white" Church is the tool of oppression for all—including poor whites—and should be shaken off just like other social maladies."

Do we know how much "Black Liberation Theology" Obama has absorbed? Believes in? Sympathizes with?

One would think that should be a legitimate question to ask him.

[doubleplusundead]

Which is part of why I kinda started the Moronosphere Network thingy, I figured it would be a handy directory for people and offer new reading and places to check out.

[brotherbrown]

For the record, nobody clings to their religion more tightly than black people when times are tough. In fact, if you ever go to a black church, how common would it be to hear not only the preacher, but many other people say, "Put it in God's hands, who can make a way out of no way."

Shoot for the first hundred years after the emancipation proclamation, it was truly the only thing many blacks had to cling to. Think there wasn't an element of bitterness to that?

This parsing of words is getting sillier and sillier.

[baldilocks]

Hi Rick! Has Obama granted an interview to anyone who would ask that question?

[baldilocks]

Excellent point about black people and religion, bb.

[hindmost]

Good stuff (as usual) Juliette... one thought I haven't seen mentioned that ties in other Obamagaffe's...

"In Obama’s mind, the religion clung to by the “average poor white Pennsylvanian” is BLT’s demonic “white” Church. The "white" Church is the tool of oppression for all—including poor whites—and should be shaken off just like other social maladies."

That Demonic White Church is likely attended by those demonized by Wright... you know; attended by "average white people," like Obama's grandmother.

[Tully]

Apologists for illegal immigration are becoming too confident in leaving out the all-important adjective 'illegal' when discussing the subject.

Amen! And the elitist view of illegal immigration is just that--elitist. But that's old ground for both of us, isn't it?

What Obama's remarks reminded me more than anything else was the condescending "I know what's wrong with you better than you do, and I know why you're all idiots" liberal-elitist tone prominently floated in Thomas Frank's book, What's the Matter with Kansas?

[Rick Moran]

No one would dare raise that kind of question if only because they might not like the answer.

[T-Steel]

If anyone thinks that Sentator Obama would be allowed to push Black Liberation Theology (or some lite/watered down version of it) as POTUS, then your living on Mars in a bottle that's in some alien's pocket. First of all, he isn't that stupid to even ATTEMPT it. Secondly, that's what our check & balances are for, to keep a president "within tolerance". Third, see #1 and #2 multiplied by 100.

All that being said, Senator McCain will win the presidency simply because the Democrats are going to screw up as a whole in one way, shape, or form in the next months.

[T-Steel]

And as brotherbrown mentioned, "clinging" to religion is a staple in the black community. I don't know how many times my grandfather, who grew up in Selma, Alabama in the 20s and 30s told us that they (black folks) "grabbed hold of Jesus and clung tight" since the KKK was "the power" around those parts.

[baldilocks]

T-Steel:

He's already done it time and time again. You don't have to call something by name to push it.

_____ Liberation "Theology" is Marxism by any other name.

[baldilocks]

"Clinging" to religion isn't the issue. It's Obama's characterization of it as something bad which government action can cure which is.

I'm so done with the Marxism scares and microanalysis of Senator Obama so-called "manchurian-ness". If he becomes POTUS, I'll bet ya a caramel apple pecan pie (YUMMY) that you wouldn't see a peep of Marxism from him.

It's Obama's characterization of it as something bad which government action can cure which is.

In all due respect baldilocks, HUH? When I read his original comments, I read something that I've heard many times in the small towns around my small city, that when the chips are down, you hold fast to your faith, your gun, and those that "keep it real" around you. I just left a lil' bar and grill here in Michigan and it was almost unanimous that folks that Senator Obama was spot on. Of course my visit to this bar & grill indicitive of how Pennsylvanians will vote, but it's interesting nevertheless.

And before some of y'all through the "clueless moonbat starry-eyed Obama liberal" label at me, I'm a Green Party guy that WAS an Obama supporter until I got sick (again) of Donkey and Elephant politics. I wouldn't vote for any of these three unless they represented a party outside of the Big 2.

[T-Steel]

That last comment was from me baldilocks. Have no idea why my name didn't show.

[baldilocks]

Tyrone: Obama characterized clinging to religion and to racism as the same in quality--both bad.

I'm so done with the Marxism scares and microanalysis of Senator Obama so-called "manchurian-ness".

If you want to ignore the wetness of rain that's certainly your prerogative. As for the "manchurian-ness" you may be thinking of some other blogger. There's nothing hidden about BHO's hard leftism.

[mishu]

Isn't the Green party moonbatty by definition?

Based on the sampling of Wright's sermons, is it any surprise that Obama thinks that clinging to religion is a sign of bitterness?

Apologists for illegal immigration are becoming too confident in leaving out the all-important adjective 'illegal' when discussing the subject.

The problem is that the people who want to crack down on illegal immigration only suggest such remedies as fences, deportation, etc. I've never seen anyone suggest reforming the legal immigration process which is tedious, corrupt and arbitrary. Would it surprise anyone that some people would take their chances with the coyotes? To Mexicans, it doesn't seem fair that Cubans can simply float here but Mexicans must stand at the end of a long queue. When McCain and Bush tried to remedy that part of the problem *along* with the fences and whatnot, they were assailed for their efforts.

[Saul Goode]

Juliette Ochieng?....

...pretty name for a very pretty lady...

...nice post, though it was all I could do to stop from repeatedly scrolling down to your picture :)

[Wayne]

Mishu, there is a HUGE difference between Cubans and Mexicans that are trying to come here.

When Cubans come here every last one of them (who is not a spy for the Regime) is totally thrilled with having a chance at being an American.

Vast numbers of Mexicans who come here think they have a right to be here, that they have a right to free benefits, they don't have to follow ANY of our laws they don't want to, the don't have to give back anything to this country, and many of them think they are reconquering what was stolen from the them in 1848.

Simply put many of the Mexican are either enemy invaders or just plain theives/criminals and when you consider that approximately 30 percent of all Mexicans who come here never work a single day while still collecting things like free heathcare, education, and housing bneefits you might start to get a grasp of the problem.

[Tully]

You think Mexicans have it bad? I have a Hungarian friend who's been waiting on his permanent status for fifteen years--ten of whcih he's been married to an American.

But yes, corporate America demands those "guest workers." To see real angst, check out what happens when they lose illegal immigrant workers because ICE simply enforces the law.

[brotherbrown]

I don't think Obama characterized it as something bad, he identified a real feeling, bitterness, that rears it's ugly head during times of economic upheaval.

Can goverment policy protect US citizens from economic upheaval? Sure can, and there is a debate out there waiting to be had about what those policies should be, from protectionist trade policies to America-first product content laws. (Not that I am for either of those.)

One thing upon which we can all agree, when times get bad, church attendence spikes. What does that say about clinging to religion during uncertain times?

How are we stuck on the word "bitter," and what word from either candidate will we be stuck on next week?

[Jeffersonian]

This is a brilliant insight, Baldilocks. You cut the Gordian knot here. A+

[mishu]

Wayne, I find your facts dubious. Where'd you get the 30 percent number? And the invasion rhetoric is hyperbole. Most Mexicans are here because the opportunities suck in Mexico and they have a better chance at finding work here. The MECHa types are a small minority.

[DANEgerus]

You hit that one out of the park.

It is so true that people should be judged by their character... as demonstrated by you.

[T-Steel]

Moonbattery is a third party phenomenon? Dems and Repubs invented it with their behavior for countless years. Methinks you need to leave that angle alone, mishu.

Tyrone: Obama characterized clinging to religion and to racism as the same in quality--both bad.

Ok. I still don't see that but it's all good nevertheless. I respectfully bow out of this debate.

I grew up around Marxism (as I said before, both my parents were Black Panthers back in the day). And hearing them talk about Black Liberation Theology and Marxism, I just don't get the same feeling from Senator Obama. But hey, as you told my many moons ago, I'm still a "baby". Maybe I'm missing something. hahaha...

[Donna M.]

Obama attended hate rallies for twenty years at a church that taught AIDS was invented by whites to mass murder blacks. A church that chanted "GOD DAM AMERICA" over and over to a cheering congregation only a week after 9/11.

When he thinks he is speaking privately to his fellow doctrinaire liberals, he tells them that it's just a fact that small town America votes on guns, God, and racism because they don't have enough money to rise above their petty resentments and childish faiths.

Obama thinks that religion and traditional values are borne of ignorance, desperation, and xenophobia. I wonder what mainstream america will think of him when they learn all of this.

[OsoGrizzly]

Baldilocks: "The problem is that the people who want to crack down on illegal immigration only suggest such remedies as fences, deportation, etc. I've never seen anyone suggest reforming the legal immigration process which is tedious, corrupt and arbitrary."

It was my understanding that the fence and deportation remedies were only demanded as a first step. This posture was taken precisely due to the Fed's history of not enforcing immigration laws and breaking promises.

Baldilocks: "I've never seen anyone suggest reforming the legal immigration process which is tedious, corrupt and arbitrary. Would it surprise anyone that some people would take their chances with the coyotes?"

IMHO the entire immigration system (or lack thereof) is purposely designed to enable/enrich lawyers. I have a Son-in-Law that has spent thousands of $$$ trying to immigrate into the US legally and gets virtually nowhere until the next lawyer is paid. It seems that virtually everyone along the way has their hand out.

[baldilocks]

T-Steel: You know I love ya, Marxism and all. I think I may need to flesh out the connection a bit; sort of walk folks through it.

OsoGrizzly,

Neither one of those quotes came from me.

[T-Steel]

And I'm always willing to listen! ;-)

[DarkStar]

Obama was right and people know it. It's just politics getting in the way.

You mean people aren't mad about immigration? Or trade policies that they think hurt them? People don't "cling" or hold on or use faith for support?

[joyce]

Obama just called people in small towns "religious wacko racists who are xenophobic gun nuts". There is no other way for him to spin it in a better light...no matter how fast he tapdances.

He also doesn't differentiate between immigrants and ILLEGAL immigrants which is a leftist trick by "typical Democrat people".

[joyce]

T-Steel

People have "clung" to their religion and their guns in times of plenty too. In fact they have been doing it since the nation was born.

Maybe it's because REAL Americans have ALWAYS treasured their freedoms...freedom of religion and right to bear arms. It has nothing to do with their lot in life.

People don't exercise their right to religion and bearing of arms BECAUSE they are angry about illegal immigration. They are angry about illegal immigration because it is ILLEGAL and because Congress is derelict in it's duty to prevent it. And what they do with their anger is exercise their right to vote the Marxist asses out of office who allow illegal immigration to bankrupt and weaken the nation.

Wake up.

[DarkStar]

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.

Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laughter), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).

But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. Each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.

Again, he was right.

[OsoGrizzly]

Sorry Baldilocks. The comments I was referring to came from Mishu 4/14, 1:32PM

[Wry Mouth]

"And so they pray and they count on each other and they count on their families."

I thought THAT was the American Dream... what'd I miss? ;o/